Dame Julie Okah-Donli is the former Director-General of the National Agency for the Prohibition of Trafficking in Persons (NAPTIP). She is lawyer, an entrepreneur, a politician, an author and a mother. In this interview with 120edgenews.com, she shares her success stories while heading NAPTIP and how experiences of some victims of human trafficking traumatised her and proffers ways the governments can help fight the scourge of human trafficking and Gender Based Violence (GBV) in Nigeria.
By Victoria Onehi
120edgenews.com: As former DG of National Agency for the Prohibition of Trafficking in Persons (NAPTIP), could you please tell us some of the success stories of traffickers the agency rescued and afterwards life became normal?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: I am always happy to share success stories of victims who were trafficked, came back and are doing well. Though the are many,but right now, I can readily think of two of the victims, who through the help of international organisations and other partners, were rescued from Egypt and brought back to Nigeria. One of them now has a shop selling provisions, the other one is selling foodstuffs and they are doing well. They went through counselling and they are doing so well. And there are some others.
120edgenews.com: What were some other high points you had while you were DG NAPTIP?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: In NAPTIP, there were so many success stories. There were so many convictions. We made arrests and prosecuted, for me that is success. Rescuing boys and girls from traffickers were my highpoints. We worked closely with Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Nigeria Diaspora Commission and we were able to bring back a lot of girls. I am sure you remember that when we went to Libya, I was on the delegation and we came back with a lot of Nigerian youth – boys and girls. Most of them were given psycho-social support.
Another success story, I don’t know if you will see it as a success story, is when I dismissed six officers for partnering with traffickers in giving information and collecting bribes. For me, that was unpatriotic. They were dismissed because leaving bad eggs in your system can cause you a lot of damage. It’s very important that when you have corrupt officers amongst law enforcement agents, you don’t spare them because if you do, they will keep corrupting other officers and endangering the lives of our youth.
120edgenews.com: Would you say your training as a lawyer helped you on the job?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: I believe my training as a lawyer has a lot of impact on my job but I also believe my upbringing played a major role. My dad was a naval officer, so he was a strong disciplinarian and discipline is among the virtues we imbibed from him. I am a very strict person. I always want to ensure we do the right thing at all times. I stood my ground and would say irrespective of who is involved in trafficking our girls and boys, he or she must be arrested.
120edgenews.com: As former DG of NAPTIP how did you cope with emotional trauma of victims and then the administrative work?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: It was a very traumatic experience for me because we had young girls, who were sexually, physically and emotionally abused and boys, who were battered and lost everything that they had. Some were suicidal. So, I found myself as a prosecutor and also a counsellor. We had trained counselors, who will counsel these victims, and then I had a one-on-one interaction with most of them. I had to counsel myself too because there were times I could not sleep and cried. I was sad to imagine the things that happened to our boys and our girls, not just abroad but even in Nigeria. There are things that sometimes, you would not like to talk about. It was traumatic and I got emotional sometimes when I listened to the victims. We had girls who were raped every day. This was especially girls who went for labour, raped by their masters and their masters’ brothers. They were beaten and were not even fed well. Some who got pregnant were killed because some who came back came to tell us stories of what befell their colleagues. Some went with two legs and came back with legs broken because they were thrown down from upstairs and so came back paralyzed. Some were made to sleep with animals. It was horrible.
120edgenews.com: Ma, we know that after rescue and closed cases, some of these victims have been struggling to live. What do you think that the society misunderstands most about life after trafficking?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: Society and a lot of people do not understand that most of these victims need to be empowered. Most of them also need continuous counselling. Some may still need counselling for a week, a month, one year and five years and so on. It’s not something that goes away easily. So, victims of human trafficking need to be treated as special people and taken care of by the government. So, after the rescue, they must be empowered and followed to ensure that they do not become suicidal.
When I was a DG NAPTIP, I had follow up teams who used to see them. So, after rescuing victims, we gave them psychosocial support for some time.
120edgenews.com: What do you think government and the private sector can do to discourage these youths from going abroad for labour in the first place?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: There are so many things government can do. For instance, I have been a strong advocate of skills acquisition even from secondary school so that in the event that any one drops out of school, there is a skill for him or her to fall back on. I also believe that if the government can empower the youth, not just giving them cash gifts but ensuring that the ones that have skills have Starter packs to start their own business, it will go a long way to help out.
Then, a lot of sensitisation and media publicity is needed to discourage human trafficking. Community sensitisation and awareness should be done to enlighten the society about the dangers of human trafficking such that people will understand what human trafficking is and how people are lured into it.
Also, in the school curricular, human trafficking and gender-based violence enlightenments should be included so that they understand that these things happen and when people come and talk to them, they are aware of what they are and the students can enlighten their parents, who may not be literate, on the dangers. So, there are lots of steps that government can take to make sure we protect the children and youth in our society.
120edgenews.com: Ma, how has life been after you left public office?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: For me, life is a continuum. The public service was a phase of my life that I passed through. I have worked in both public and private sectors. I have paid my dues. Just before I left NAPTIP, I was appointed as the Chairperson, the United Nations Voluntary Trust Fund (UNVTF) for victims of trafficking. So, I was still doing what I loved doing. So, even when I left NAPTIP, I transitioned into this. And then, I started, ROOST Foundation, and we are focused on issues of human trafficking, Gender Based Violence. So, I continued to do what I can do to help victims of trafficking.
At ROOST Foundation, we engage faith based leaders, community leaders to enlighten their people about Gender Based Violence and human trafficking. Also, we tell parents that if a child is raped, it’s the rapist that should be punished. Town hall meetings are also needed to educate people about these social vices.
120edgenews.com: With ROOST Foundation now, how are you helping traffickers who need help?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: They can send their names to me via roostfoundation@gmail.com. That is how I was able to rescue some from Egypt and other countries. They sent an email to me and I took it up from there. I started communicating with them, set up a Whatsapp platform and we kept in touch with them until they were rescued.
120edgenews.com: Ma, could you share your experience as an entrepreneur?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: For me, anything that can bring money legitimately, you can do. I do a little of farming, a little of industrial cleaning. Let me tell you the trick and you are going to pay me consultancy fee for that (Laughs). You don’t have to set up all the businesses you want to do. You may just have to partner with someone or others. For instance, get someone who is into industrial cleaning and you partner with him or her. Also, you can get someone who is into farming cashew nuts, for instance, and you find out what does it takes and partner. You don’t have to get a land, you just invest in what someone has set up already. Learn to partner. A lot of people do not partner they want to be MD/CEO and they end up struggling without making anything.
120edgenews.com: You have won many awards, which of them do you cherish most?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: I actually cherish all of them. For an organization to think of giving me an award, they must have seen something commendable in what I do and I don’t take any of them for granted. I cherish the Officer of the Order of the Niger honour conferred on me by the President, which is a national award. The rest of them are from private institutions and I cherish them too.
120edgenews.com: Could you describe who Julie Donli is?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli : I am a Lawyer and a Chartered Secretary and Administrator. I still practice law as it is my first love. I am a politician as well as an entrepreneur. I am a mother, an author and a farmer. I am very passionate about humanitarian work. When I was DG NAPTIP and even before then, I had a Kidney Foundation through which I was reaching out to patients of kidney failure for help. I always did one thing or the other for humanity whether it is sending children to school or giving them basic needs support. That’s the passion I have and it gives me joy and fulfilment.
I am also a politician. I am one of the founding members of APC in Bayelsa State, we started APC in the state. As a matter of fact, my appointment as DG of NAPTIP then was a political appointment. I am an active member and a card carrying member of the party.
120edgenews.com: Are you contesting for any office soon?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli : I tried to contest for the Senate two years ago. But right now, I don’t think I want to spend so much energy and my time running for a political office because my experience that time was not so good. If I am going to get the ticket to contest easily, then I will give it a shot, but as it is now, I don’t think I want to exert the energy.
120edgenews.com: Ma, given your very tight schedule of roles and responsibilities, how do you relax?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: I love to dance. I like to cook. I love good music. I like to read and I like to write as well. I have three books already. Sometimes, I just sit down and start to write. I am also thinking of writing my fourth book which you will know when the time comes. One of my books is Parenting in the 21st Century. I also wrote Murky Waters, Ending Human Trafficking in Nigeria, and Human Rights Activism and Philanthropy. The last one is A to Z about human trafficking and it’s about the strategies on how government or anyone can end human trafficking in Nigeria. My fourth book will be released this year on my 60th birthday. Everybody says I am looking young. So, I want to use the publication to tell them the secret.
120edgenews.com: Could you tell us some tips about parenting?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: On parenting, I can tell you this and I do whenever I carry out sensitization on Gender Based Violence. Some parents think you should concentrate on girl child forgetting that these days, you have pedophiles who go after young girls, and you have bisexuals who go after boys and girls. So, parents have to be watchful. There are little tips I always share:
Taking your children to school with only a driver is risky. You must have an adult female accompanying him and if your child is using the school bus, you must have a female teacher accompanying the driver. If the female is not around for any reason, the school must replace her.
For a boarding school where you have young girls and men are security guards that is not good. You must have female security as well. So, you must ensure the balances. For counselling sessions, girls must not have it with men alone, a woman should be present. Also, where you have male principal, you must have female vice Principal because these days, there are a lot of things happening that parents must be very conscious of.
When I was growing up, my parents were very strict, I did not understand why until now. Then it will be our driver and our house-help taking me to school and back. But these days, you will see some parents leave their children in school for almost 4 hours with the security men in school and they don’t know what has transpired within that window. Some lesson teachers have raped children so parents must be on the watch and protect their children. My advice is: don’t leave your children with a lesson teacher without an adult supervising them. You see your child does not want to go to school and you beat the child. It’s better to find out why a girl child does not want to go to school. There may be someone abusing that child in school, maybe a teacher or one of the boys there. If your son or daughter does not like a teacher, find out why. If your child is withdrawn and not eating well, these are signs, find out why. We must try and pay attention to our children. We must protect our children and always ensure they are in safe space and talk to them all the time.
120edgenews.com: What can government do to reduce the menace of Gender Based Violence in the society?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: Gender Based Violence affects mostly women even though it affects guys too. There are many harmful cultural practices that have been accepted as a norm. In Nigeria and Africa, until government makes effort to abolish those laws and practices, then there will be no help. Like widowhood practices in some places are very crude and we still have people carrying out genital mutilation of young girls. That should be scrapped out. Thank God for Violence Against Persons Prohibitions (VAPP) Act, which has scrapped it out it. But it’s not about scrapping the genital mutilation but implementing and ensuring that Genital Mutilation is no longer happening. There are things government has done well but they need to enforce. We have things like rape that is treated lightly most of the time. You have places that they say widows cannot inherit their husbands’ properties.
All those cultural practices are being dealt with right now because courts are doing a great job right now. So, when you don’t have respect or regard for the woman, then the young ones will not have respect for her. We must teach our young boys how to respect the woman. Even at home, don’t tell the girl to do the dishes while the brother is watching TV. The boy too, should do the dishes. It’s a wrong mindset to think only the girl should do the dishes. So, a lot of work needs to be done.
120edgenews.com What is your advice to young people?
Dame Julie Okah-Donli: Unfortunately, a lot of young Nigerians are in a hurry to make it big. There is no patience anymore. They just want to be rich and they don’t care anymore. That’s why we have a lot of Yahoo Yahoo boys now. I will advise our youth to be hard-working and focused. For me, with determination, hard work and focus, the young ones will get to wherever they want to be. They should not be in a hurry to get rich because people do a lot of evil things to be rich. There is a lot of organ harvesting going on now and young boys and girls are lured into this. Kidnapping and many more of these evil are happening. So, I advise our youth to do the right thing at the right time and they will get to where they want to get to in life.
